Guest: Phil (tattoo artist, illustrator, sculptor, toymaker)
[Currently the time stamps are just estimates]
Phill
Okay, so I've had the honor of calling this guest a friend since the 90s. I first knew him as a kid that drew really well, that had the same name as me. When I finally saw his artwork on display in our high school, I was blown away. Since that time, we have had a ton of adventures spanning from New York to Japan, battling the Vex, and Cabal in outer space. I would like to welcome a hero I call by their first name, Phil. So what's going on man?
Phil
Yes. Hello. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is great. Yeah, yeah, we've had a lot of adventures and our, our friendship spans the sort of legendary status of you know, Frodo and Aragon and Gandalf you know like from the depths to the highest ascension of anything that anybody can think of
Phill
Yeah man, we were friends before Metal Gear Solid came out
Phil
Right!
Phill
On the PlayStation one, man.
Phil
Yeah, yeah. And you know we have a group of you guys you can go back further than that so I've already I can I came into the party- I came to the story when there was such a rich history already established and that's kind of what I enjoyed the most about being friends with you guys is 'cause I was getting- and you guys never withheld the information. You told your story in your lore with such honesty and such inclusiveness that I wish I could not not be friends with you guys.
Phill
Yeah, man. I mean, yeah, I think it was just, it was just like, it just everything just clicked, you know?
Phil
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Phill
And I think, you know, back then, you know, it was still, not a lot of people like to admit it today, but being a black kid into Star Trek or into comics or into video games or into metal was not cool. And it and it was definitely uh you know, not only black but just you know, being a Latino kid, whatever,
Phil
A minority of any flavor Really? Yeah, you were, um, you were a unicorn in a way and not in the good way. You like- it- you know, you, you were not it was kind of frowned upon, you know. Yeah, it the kids nowadays don't know how good they actually have it that of pop culture has embraced and righted its course in a lot of ways. So yeah.
Phill
Yeah, so alright so yeah man. So you know that this pod- this podcast is just you know kind of just celebrating you know our friendship and you know just having a chance to- well for me to get to know you a little bit better. So, you know, before we kind of talk about like our history and what made us friends, can you just, you know, share a little bit about You know, what made you like an artist because that's how I first met you. That's- was like first things like holy shit, man, this guy just like dripping with talent man. So yeah, man like when did you first pick up a pencil or pen or an exacto knife? Like, can you just-
Phil
It's funny you bring up the exacto knife thing, because there's actually a story behind that, but um, no. jeez. Let me start Let me try and start at mostly the beginning. So I was born right now. No, no, no, no, no, really. Um, my mother and father were both artists and I really equate my talents and the specificity of my talents. On both of them. My father was an architect and he was studying to go to like Cooper Union. And my mother was a fine artist. So when I started doing drawing, something happened and people kind of like, they still say it to this day that like, I'm a good draftsman. But yet I create very out of this world conceptualized things, but they're drafted really well; super clean. A lot of times when you have people who are fine artists, they tend to be very messy and it's kinetic and I shouldn't even say messy it's just kinetic they put a lot of energy into their art and that's how they move forward. Um, with myself personally, I do create surrealistic images or at least I used to have as my basis for why I started but they were very calculated, very very precise um I of course at a very early age was obsessed with HR Giger from seeing the movie alien
Phill
Yeah, I was gonna ask about that later. Yeah, yeah
Phil
Yeah, I had you know, because My parents were also well versed in art and tools of art. I used to be able to bring pieces of art to them and ask them like, "Look, how did they make this?" And you know, my mom and they would look and they would go Hmm, my dad one time he looked at HR Giger stuff and he goes, "Well, that's definitely airbrush." So I'm like, from the child's mind, I'm like, "A brush made of air. How is this possible? What is this insane magical science?" your head just start spinning with this idea of what these things could be. And I tried everything in my power to replicate that from acrylic paint and smearing finger paints and stuff. And one day I discovered that a ballpoint pen- if I take my time like really take my time, I can replicate these almost airbrushed images and that was- that brings me to about the time frame where I met you and everyone else,
Phill
okay.
Phil
And so that's how-
Phill
This is what like 97?
Phil
Yeah, yeah.
Phill
96 yeah
Phil
Yeah, it might have been 97/98. Um, but like, that was the imagery that like, I think when you guys had finally first approached me and asked me who I was and stuff like that was after the gallery show in Brentwood, where I did have some of my pen and ink drawings in that and yeah, but outside of that, I have had an unbelievable amount of influences as far as- and have been unbelievably lucky to be in the right places at the right times and been given opportunities by people who didn't know me from Adam, but kind of saw- the kind of saw a little potential. So they were- they took a gamble, they took a risk. I'm 15 years old, and people are like, "Here, do this concept art or here we're going to teach you how to color comic Books for-"
Phill
I remember that. Yeah, that was like, "What He's doing work for Marvel what the?!"
Phil
Yeah, Phill, that whole thing has come full circle. I mean it's insane to me because um as I was, you know when we approach the question the protests but- I had on the gentleman Chris Sotomayor who I worked under when I was 15 as an apprentice coloring at Marvel, he actually joined me and my wife and Hugo and Galean and all these other people out at the first protest, and it in a lot of ways, we were all feeling frustrated. We were all feeling helpless. And I remember we were talking and I was like, Hey, man, "Look, we're going to do this protest. Why don't you come?" And ever since then, he's been it, like, reinvigorated him. But that's neither here nor there. Let's- I just want to talk about the full circle of this. So he's been working on a book currently called The Question.
Phill
Okay.
Phil
And it's illustrated by Bill Sienkiewicz, who back When I was in elementary school, there was a project that we had where it was like, "What do I want to be when I grow up?" So they wanted you to kind of be like "What career path you want to take?" I think I was in maybe like fifth grade, "What is your career path? What do you want to do?" I said, "Fine. I want to be an artist." So I wanted so badly to reach out to HR Giger. That's how obsessed I was as a kid with this man and his artwork. And there's, at the time, there was no internet there was my parents had no clue how to how to reach out to a world-famous fine artists designed one of the most iconic movie monsters in Hollywood history since the univere of pictures, but instead, my mom gave me one of her books from SVA. And when you graduate from SVA, they create a look-book sort of like a Facebook kind of thing and they distribute it. And in this book, you will have a single piece of art with contact information. I think the book was called RSVP. You can still find copies of them, I think I still have the copy of my mom's one It almost looked like a notepad it had a spiral binding. It was really well done but it was a heavy stock paper, but I came across this picture of Daredevil and Electra getting married and this little Cupid things around him- around them. And that was Bill Sienkiewicz. And I was completely instantaneously that was it for me I was like "That too. that- "I need to acquire that skill. I need to draw like that." Because it was cartoonish and all this, right. So he's working on this comic called the question, Bill Sienkiewicz did the, the inking Denys Cowan, who is a legendary illustrator as well. I want to make sure I get this right. I'm pretty sure Denys Cowan is doing the pencils Bill Sienkiewicz, inking, and then Chris Sotomayor is the colorist. Okay, so I took a subscription of The Question. And I've been collecting them of course with time and things like that you don't get time to read the comics. So I Buying comics. I've been reading them. It's terrible,
Phill
Yeah, man, it happens, man.
Phil
And I only have three titles. Mm-hmm. You always end up with a backlog because the life gets in the way you're not a teenager anymore. You don't have 8 hours or 10 hours of downtime. But after the protests that I went to with the speech, at one point, when the question came out, I asked Chris was like, dude, do you think it's possible? If you signed a copy for me if we just mailed it around to like Sienkiewicz and Cowan and see if they'll sign it for me? And Chris goes, "Well, you know, it's kind of difficult 'cause Sienkiewicz is really like um, he's a very private dude. He's very busy. He's very like intense so the chances of that are really slim but you know, we'll see." Time went by never happened. I ended up doing this- the protests I end up doing the speech, which drew in 3500 people's a huge massive protest and Sayville. Chris presented me with a signed print from the question signed by himself, Denys Cowan and Bill Sienkiewicz, and that that broke me dude. Like, I cried like a baby because here it was, this was everything coming back full circle. Everything that I've done as an artist coming back full circle. So yeah, my influences, what got me into a comics, artwork in general, every single facet of who I became was- was solely based on people willing to give me a shot. And I was very lucky and those things that started at all have never left me they still exist in my world and in my life. So, growing up I always told people, especially in art college, you know, people are like, "Well, I want to work for this person. I want to work for that person." I from what I know about Jean Segura, who was one of my instructors when I was younger, and Chris Sotomayor and stuff. They came from a group of like-minded artists that all came up at the same time, you have to look at the people around you, those are the people you're going to be working with your peer group, or there's going to be the workers of tomorrow and you have to adhere to them as much as you adhere to everything else that's around you. So that's why it's been really important that I've stayed in touch with people like you and other people from Brentwood High School and stuff. So yeah, yeah, it's been an interesting ride. Yeah.
Phill
Yeah, man, it's, you know, it's like a lot, you know, as you know, I'm a teacher, and, you know, a lot of what you kind of talk about, like your journey of, you know, the people like that- you know, that inspired you that, you know, helped you. It's all kind of goes back to like this theory of, you know, Zone of Proximal development where you, it's like three different circles. So like the middle circle is things that you can do on your own and circle out of you are things that you can do with health. Yeah and then the third circle is things that you can't do even with help but the- but that inner circle grows more and more outward into the circle that you can do it help and then you can do it on your own and then that circle expands and it's Yeah, you just kind of explained you know, like from your childhood, you know, your parents they with you, you ask them like what is this and they're like, they were giving you like, like terms and in explaining things and you just have grown and grown and yeah, man, it's beautiful man, you know, and even today, your circle is still expanding, you know
Phil
Yeah, Yeah,
Phill
This uh the artistic community is also another thing called Community of Practice and just kind of how you mentioned being within a community of people with shared values and shared goals.
Phil
Yes.
Phill
It- you know, gives you It motivates you in and you know, allows you to continue to you know, you know, learn and grow. So, yeah, yeah, that's awesome, man.
Phil
Yeah, it was. Yeah, absolutely. Like I- of course, when you look back at your life, there's always regrets. But I feel like there's been so much I've been handed so much and given so many opportunities that like, I have a hard time looking back and anger at the people around me I mean circumstances or circumstances, but I have really been lucky. People that I've been exposed to, and the people who have who valued me over the years, including my friends, I mean, look at us now. This podcast, this is great. I mean, I love it. But um, yeah, yeah. Oh, let me give you the side story about the exacto knife.
Phill
Okay, yeah man, yeah, yeah
Phil
My father. He has taught me so much about the workman and the Craftsman side of things. So that's how I learned how to build things and stuff. But when I was about 6 or 7 years old, this man gave me a full exacto knife set and balsa wood so I can carve things because I was obsessed with carving things. Phill the 80s it is by the grace of God that I have all my digits still. I have scars everywhere. You know, but it's funny. It's just funny you brought up exacto knives. I was given one at a very early age
Phill
My daughter is five and I would not even might consider giving her something next yeah like that
Phil
If I had a child, I would not give it an exacto knife it's seven years old and some balsa wood. I mean don't get me wrong it's not like he got me the set and went here
Phill
Yeah, just walked away. Yeah,
Phil
He sat me down and he said "always cut away from you always make sure your hands out of the way". Yeah, yeah, right. Give me the razor. Well, you and I was cutting down GI Joe guns and things I add is one slip and oh... Forget it, forget it,
Phill
that it's going back to this theory called Self-Determination Theory. It's a really extensive theory, it's a huge book
Phil
Really?
Phill
and it just about like human motivation. And what it says is that we need new nutrients kind of to grow. So we need, you know, relatedness, like kind of what you talked about the community
Phil
Yes.
Phill
competence which is that we have to feel that we are making a difference in what we're doing.
Phil
Right?
Phill
And then finally, autonomy is that freedom and that seems what your dad did exactly. He was like, he gave you the tools gave you the freedom. Yeah, you know, you know, he was there for support, but he let you just go nuts and the yeah man and I'm sure you know, you know, and I know your parents. I know they're really proud of you. And so it looks like it worked out man. Maybe I should get Mei an exacto knife.
Phil
Oh, no, no, I don't suggest it at all because as much as-
Phill
I'm not an architect's, I don't think it'll work too well.
Phil
Well, you know, the other thing is just that, you know, you got to keep in mind that that circle of autonomy started getting smaller and smaller as the older I got and the more I could handle power tools. Oh, no, they were accidents that went far beyond and they were like really encouraging you like, Oh, yeah, you can do this. You can do that. And then I would get hurt. And they're like, Oh, he's not allowed to use that anymore. I got my hand caught in a belt sander was like- like, just things that you know, I wanted to do things and they weren't always around to be like, my dad wasn't always around to be like, "Yo, you shouldn't do it that way." I had a glove on and the glove pulled my hand into the to the
Phill
Oh my god
Phil
sanding belt but he would have told me he'd like don't deal with the glove on come on. Yeah, but yeah,
Phill
Oh, man. Well yeah man, thanks for sharing so much.
Phil
Of course
Phill
You know, how you came up and how things have gone full circle.
Phil
Thank you.
Phill
Yeah, man. So...so yeah. Like we kind of talked about the early influences and stuff. So, this is, I guess this next I guess topic I'll like kind of talk about is kind of like the of the events in your life. I've, you know, we've been friends a long time, obviously and we've definitely been through, you know, we've seen each other have, you know, some events, you know, you'd have to share you know, everything but um, you know, so what are some like happenings or you know, things that shifted your kind of, you know, you can take it any direction you want, you can like- your artistic self or your life trajectory can be like with schooling, you know, I know, you know, you have a lot of history with that.
Phil 18:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some events that have that have
Phill 18:50
good and bad, good and good and bad.
Phil 18:52
change the course of my approach to being an artist
Phill 18:57
Artist or just you know life
Phil 18:59
Just life in general. Yeah. Sure, sure um, wow, I that's a loaded question 'cause there's, there's like, Oh, no, no, that's fine. I'm just trying not to keep everybody for like three hours 'cause I can tell you stuff and it'd be crazy, but
Phill 19:16
We've only been talking for 20 minutes man, so we got about 40 more so
Phil 19:19
Okay, okay, well I'll still keep it brief. Um, you know they were there were a lot of events that happen that they happen fast because you're when you're growing up you're sometimes you're forced to grow up a little faster then you're you're used to which is fine but the thing is all these little what people would consider missteps are really course-correcting you towards your destiny for one reason or another, right?
Phill 19:53
I like that. I like that. Yeah,
Phil 19:54
It's true because if you try to like- and I think about this often, like what would it be like- I was like, you know, like imaginatory things like, you know, what would it be like to wake up as say for example, you know seven-year-old you so you don't have to go through that whole thing where you're crapping your pants and people are carrying you around and learning the walk. Forget all that yeah Imagine waking up with total cognizance that you have now but you're like seven-years old.
Phill 20:22
Yeah.
Phil 20:23
What would you do like the things that you would do? Like first of all, I would invest in a ton of toys like Toys R Us and stuff and like, you know, buying a bunch of stuff that I know is gonna be hundreds of thousands of dollars
Phill 20:35
Buy it and to put it in the closet.
Phil 20:37
Yeah just hide them and never give them up.
Phill 20:39
Like, mom, trust me.
Phil 20:41
Yeah, like the kid is weird. The kid works the stock market was 10 years old. Like why does Why is he so obsessed with Apple-like, "What is wrong with him?"
Phill 20:51
This Macintosh is gonna be something completely different.
Phil 20:55
One of these days you mark my words and just be really creepy but honestly- honestly, it's true. Like, wait, there's a tightrope to be walked there because everything that you do will alter even though you don't want it to it's the classic delicate Sound of Thunder story I think it's Isaac Asimov that wrote that where the rich people can go back in time through the time tunnel, and they can witness dinosaurs but they're not allowed to touch anything and somebody steps on a butterfly or a bug. Messes up everything. Um, so yeah, no matter what you do, you can't change or you can drastically change your outcome. So you can't ride the wave of what it was that you wanted to be or lead yourself to the same destination if you alter your future at all. So, things that you consider missteps are actually important. So, um, there was a time where I was going to private school and I had an altercation. We're going to, we're going to, you know, we're going to dragnet this so all the names and everyone's gonna remain innocent. But you know, I had an altercation that ended up in my removal from said school. And I had to then attend public school, which I have always been exposed to public school kids, you know, knowing, like I lived in give everybody 'cause I'm talking to you like we're friends forever you know my history, but I lived in Queens, but I went to school in Long Island and in really affluent areas in Long Island, thanks to my parents who tried really hard and much to their chagrin, I just blazed a trail of bad things. But, at one point, I was removed from said school and had attend public schools, and that changed everything. So there was a point where I was witnessing a lot of violence. I was witnessing a lot of disparagement and just terrible things happening to these kids and the lack of anybody, even caring about them to the point where I essentially for all intents and purposes had dropped out of school. I became Shinji Ikari, I am not kidding. I was Shinji Ikari This is why Neon Genesis resonates so well with me because I used to ride the New York City subway and listen to my Walkman or my CD player, same albums over and over again tapes over and over again when I reached the end of the line turn around and go back. And I road almost every elevated train in the New York City subway system just to see, you know, um, so that was a big turning point because when I finally got to Brentwood- because essentially, my parents had realized that somehow they were losing their son, I never really got into too much trouble. I got into trouble here and there but nothing really bad not laying down jail or anything. But, you know, they were concerned they knew I wasn't going to school, they knew- they kind of knew the reasons why because they knew it was dangerous. Um, so that because of that, that thing that was pretty much a misstep and bad choices if I never made that bad choice if I never had that that, um, that altercation I wouldn't be here talking with you in specific right now because then I ended up going to Brentwood and Brentwood- like I explained to everyone. Brentwood was such a special place to grow up
Phill 21:19
And, like pretty much this whole first season of these interviews everybody's been brought with pretty much
Phil 24:25
Yeah, and I think everyone's gonna get a real education on how, how special and diverse and, like, struggle and strife and all these crazy things going on, but it was done in such a Goonies kind of way. It was like Goonies meets Boyz in the Hood. You know, like you could find one I really treasure but you can also get shot doing it like this. It's not the Fratellis man like it's like serious stuff like things could happen. So you know That's to give you at least one example of what it's like. Of you know never to take bad things that happened to you in your life and think that this is it? Because it's never the story's never written. The ink is never dry. You will always always have a new adventure. Unless of course, you know the Fratellis get you and you get shot and then that's it. Yeah, but other than that, you're still alive. You're still breathing. Everything's good. And you will even though it seems really dark, there's always a new adventure to be had. Um, but yeah, that's that's the long and short of that in general.
Phill 25:40
Nice, man. Yeah, no, it's um, yeah. That's, that's really like, prolific I think that's the word that what you said man, like every misstep, is kind of like a step towards your destiny, man.
Phil 25:52
I'm pretty sure I can't coin that phrase. I'm sure that I have heard that somewhere else written in literature, somebody somebody else in history has got to have said that once or twice. And I might have read it in agreement card. I don't know. Like, it's stuck with me. Whatever it is. It's stuck with me and here it is. I'm regurgitating it. Yeah, okay, I can't coin that. But
Phill 26:15
so yeah, man. Wow, man, I think you have said a lot. It's only been 26 minutes.
Phil 26:21
Really? Oh boy. Ask away Yeah, I'll do better. I'll try harder.
Phill 26:27
No, no. This is great man.
Phil 26:29
No, it's okay.
Phill 26:30
So I don't I, I think I like to fast forward a little bit and kind of into the 2000s. But then I'd definitely like to go back until the to the early 2000s. But I definitely want to kind of push a little bit further into the future to when you were in Japan,
Phil 26:47
right, right.
Phill 26:49
So you know, I remember lots- I remember doing lots of Call of Duty I think Gears, lots of cigarette breaks.
Phil 26:56
Sure. I highly addicted to Mild Seven cigarettes for $3 a pack, and you Wow, you can't do that because when you got back to the States, everything was $13. And I was like my God, I miss Mild Sevens. They were amazing. Nothing- nothing in the states here can replicate that. Um, what Camel Crush has done where they have like the ball that breaks. I remember when I was in Japan, they used to have the advertisements in the subway of the guy getting hit with a bucket of ice water and it was like "Mild Sevens. This is what it- this is where it's at!" And it's like, I was like, Yo, I gotta know what that's about. And it just, it tasted amazing. Like they were just phenomenal cigarettes. And then I come back to the states and there's been nothing like nothing. I mean, I don't Yeah, I don't smoke cigarettes anymore. I generally hate
Phill 27:44
Me neither. yeah.
Phil 27:44
Yeah, but man, if there was ever a gold standard, which is funny, because they were so cheap with the gold standard of cigarettes.
Phill 27:54
I'm not gonna like, man, if- you know, if I make it to 80, man, I'm gonna start smoking again. Like what-
Phil 28:00
You know?
Phill 28:00
I got like 10-15 years left? Fuck it.
Phil 28:02
Yeah, like, Who's gonna like, what am I saving up for? Like, really? Oh, you know it, you know, you know, I'm going back and I'm going back hard man like-
Phill 28:14
Oh, man. So there was there were two times that we, you know, met in Japan The first time. Yeah. You know definitely want to get into the whole you know history with that but I remember what I wanted to ask you about was that was when the first time I played Xbox (360)
Phil 28:39
Was it?
Phill 28:40
Yeah, I was. And you had like the high definition TV, probably 720p or something, maybe 1080p, okay, and that blew me away. But what also blew me away at the time was that you said that you won a contest designing The Xbox face the
Phil 29:03
One of the faceplates Yeah, yeah, that was a story
Phill 29:07
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Phil 29:06
Sure sure, I mean that you want to talk about missteps in synchronicity and oddball stuff that happened and that story has so much history but we'll start somewhere in the middle.
Phill 29:21
Okay.
Phil 29:22
Um I'm at a party for a store that opened up there's a famous story in in in Manhattan that's called Toy Tokyo and at the time I was
I was a just like, I basically worked in the shop, I'd answer people's questions and stuff and you know, I had enough knowledge and know how for toys that they were just like, wow, yeah, you could just wander around the floor, make sure that nobody steals anything and tell them about the toys. So it was a great job. I didn't get paid much but it was a great job. And they exposed me to a lot of different people. So they opened up a another location which was called Hi-5 in like H i hyphen five like the numeral high five in the not The Village in I think we're closer to Dumbo Brooklyn was like a Brooklyn location.
Phill 30:11
Okay
Phil 30:12
Um and at this party, every heavy hitter in the toy design industry in the States was there and present so I was seeing all these names and faces and all these other things and a lot of my future career excuse me in the custom toy scene came from this this this one party at that night. But most importantly, I was introduced by this artist His name is Chris Neaton and he's pretty world famous. His brother Matt is such a nice guy. He is like the most inviting. Whenever you see somebody at a party Alright, we were at a party and Matt was there. You always found him talking to the person who was quiet in the corner, the person who just seemed a little, like maybe uncomfortable, maybe a little nerdy, nobody wants to talk to them and stuff like that. So here I am standing in a corner, just like looking around the room like and all these people like oh my God, look at all these artists, like some of the graffiti artists I like recognized and stuff like that. And designers and stuff. And he- guy comes over to me this big white dude comes over. He goes, "Man, who's the sour look and dude, stand the corner. What's your name?" He puts his arm around my shoulder. And I'm like, "Who the hell is this lunatic?" And I'm like, "I'm like, Yo, I'm so what's up?" He is like, he's like, "Yeah, man." He's like "You an artist dude? You, like, you just hanging out cool as a cucumber. What are you doing?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm sort of an artist. I'm not like these guys here." And he was like, "Man, forget all that noise." He's like, "let me let me walk you around the room and introduce you to people."
Phill 31:54
Wow.
Phil 31:54
Okay, great. So he starts introducing me to all types of people. I think he introduced me to his brother that night and a bunch of other names, but one of the most important people he introduced me to was this gentleman named Eric Ore. And Eric or has an unbelievable history Phill. Unbelievable. He worked with Keith Haring back in the day in the subways.
Phill 32:15
Oh, wow.
Phil 32:15
Yeah. Yeah. No, this guy's history is deep. He designed I'm busy bs logo. Oh, yeah, dude, like when it comes to hip hop. This guy is like, he's, he's a legend. He's a legend. So I mean, Eric and Eric's just like this really nice inviting guy. He's, you know, really chill. And he just kind of goes to me, he's like, "Hey, man. He's like, you know, I'm working on this project, right?" And he's like, "I'm Mad Catz is having a contest." He's like, "They're letting artists design 360 faceplates."
Phill 32:50
Mm-hmm.
Phil 32:50
And he goes, "You know, what, how would you like to design one?" I said, "Sure. Let me let me get up, give it a shot.", you know, whatever. So in a couple of days, either It gives me a blank um and I start working on it. Now let's put this in perspective. I work in Astoria, Queens, but I live in New Paltz, upstate New York.
Phill 33:13
That's right, forgot about that.
Phil 33:14
So, I am traveling about out of my day, maybe 10 hours. Yeah, on the bus, going back and forth. And then when we get home, I would have four hours to work, sleep, and then get back get up in the morning to catch the bus to go back out to catch the train, to go to Astoria and then walk like nine blocks to work. So I was literally doing it for the love of it.
Phill 33:39
Yeah, yeah.
Phil 33:40
So I create this 3d hand sculpted a monster.
Phill 33:47
I remember it.
Phil 33:48
Yeah. Yeah, he basically looked like Frankenstein, with its brands hanging out and his face is being propped up with nails and things like that to a skull. Still lit up through the red ring or the green light. His- when the little compartment the bottom where you'd plug in the USB controllers, it made his teeth fold down so it looked like he was biting on to the wires. It was a lot of fun and I just went nuts with it. So it ended up going on display at uh, I want to say, God, what year was that? 2003, 2004 Um What is it? What is the major video game, convention they have? I'm drawing a blank
Phill 34:36
E3?
Phil 34:37
Yes. E3. It went on display at E3. Now I went on to win this contest. And the contest was based on people's votes. So you're talking about people walking by who- they took the time. Oh, Phil feeling good? Are you kidding me, man? I was up against every person that was in that room that night. That was like major names and heavy hitters and all the designers like every single major designer at the time, threw in on this project, and it was either an Xbox 360 faceplate or this screw on faceplate for the original PSP. And I beat them all.
Phill 35:19
Wow, man.
Phil 35:19
I beat everyone. So it was terror equal parts terrifying and equal parts like vindicating. Um, and I had a part of what I won was and this is where the story starts getting sad. A part of what I won was I want an Xbox 360 and then I won a licensing deal with Mad Catz where they would literally 3d, like 3d make that they would make a mold of it or recreate it somehow. And it would be sold in Best Buys, I mean, talking about distribution and I would get royalties from this disruption Like serious royalties that could have been my moment, I would have made a ton of cash on that even if they gave me $1 per faceplate that they produced and do millions all nationwide and all this crazy stuff because there's mad cats, you know, they make crap.
Phill 36:15
Yeah,
Phil 36:15
Um, and that brings me to my point, they make crap. So there was a kid who got burned by their cooling fans that they made for the power supply on the back of the Xbox. And unfortunately talking back and forth with Eric, he was like, "Yeah, man, they had tragedy dude," he was like "the money that they were going to put into that project for the win, has to go to this lawsuit." Like it got shut down. He was like, "but it's a consolation. Here's another Xbox." I'm like, Bro I own an Xbox. What are you talking about? Like what's happening here?" You know, no fault on Eric at all. He, he handled it. Like, like, you know, like a gentleman you know, like he was never never never an issue for me it was just so funny it was he apologized it was just sat around the room 'cause I think I think he really 'cause it was his baby. He convinced Mad Catz to do this. And Mad Catz kind of dropped the ball with their cheap production.
Phill 37:18
That's nuts, man. I remember that, man.
Phil 37:19
Funny story. I like that story. This story makes me laugh.
Phill 37:23
But yeah, man, it's just, you know? Yeah, dude, it's just I remember, you know, just bits and pieces of it. But um, just like, Wow, man, that was so cool, man. I remember you telling me. Whoa, and you see everything come together. You know, being a part of that. Yeah, 'cause that was about like, 2006 I think.
Phil 37:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It had to be. Yeah, yeah. That'd be Yeah. I mean that but again, we're talking about all these things and like how life handles you and the opportunities you're given. Because of that. I ended up getting a job later on after that. I worked at trust me in studio and stuff. So again, even out of failure, even out of like things that could have been, I still managed to find something out of it. And that's why, you know, if we're- if this is meant to inspire anybody else, it's like, dude, if you take it on the chin, if you take it on the arches, you have to still push, you still have to see something positive out of everything that is pretty much perceived as a failure, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Phill 38:32
All right. So yeah. Okay, so now I'm gonna press rewind and go back about six years, seven years from that point. I'm, to beHind enEmy liNes.
Phil 38:44
Oh, boy. I knew that was coming up. Yeah.
Phill 38:48
So I think this for me, was kind of, you know, a paradigm shift in my mind. That you know, you were able to, you know, really be political, with your creativity in a way that I just wasn't aware of, you know, like, You know, for me art was always you know, I play music and stuff with lots of bands.
Phil 39:21
Yeah.
Phill 39:22
But um, for me art was something that was just like cool to look at, you know, I'm a pretty good drawer you know, nothing spectacular. But I never, you know, really got got art.
Phil 39:38
Right.
Phill 39:39
you know? Yeah, until you started, you know that you know, brand or whatever you want to call it kind of this way of thinking, because, like, you know, H.E.N. it's such a cool thing because it's the acronym or whatever, whatever it's called properly, right? Yes. Third, what is the second letter?
Phil 39:58
It's the third letter.
Phill 40:00
Yeah, so it's beHind enEmy liNes
Phil 40:03
Yeah, it's cryptic. Yeah.
Phill 40:05
I remember that I was- Yo man that, you know that it was like waking up, like Neo waking up from the Matrix.
Phil 40:13
Oh, wow, that's a lot to put on me Phill
Phill 40:17
You know we were what like 17, 18, 19. You know
Phil 40:20
Yeah. in that in that timeframe.
Phill 40:22
Yeah.
Phil 40:23
Yeah.
Phill 40:24
And I was just like, "Holy shit" and a lot, you know, I think I, you know, no one said he said this no one had the vocabulary but I think some people might have thought it was kind of derivative of Echo. Right.
Phil 40:37
Okay, yeah it there's something about that too but I'll explain that but go ahead
Phill 40:42
yeah, it wasn't. And I remember I worked at Mr. Rags. Yes, sure. And I would, I was like, "Yo, man, you have to sell it" and then that is kind of when I realized and I think I'd like to kind of touch on that like the last like maybe 10 minutes or so
Phil 40:59
Sure, Sure
Phill 41:00
But what I realized was like that, making it big, or, you know, using artwork, especially things that are politically driven, or that were like conscious was and I don't know, maybe I'm wrong with this but is what kind of held all of us, to some extent, back because we were trying to, you know, be- not deep but we were just try to you know, I'll try to sum it up really quick, we try to try to share our stories.
Phil 41:39
Yes.
Phill 41:39
You know, be- put ourselves into our artwork, keep it real. So to speak.
Phil 41:43
Yes, I agree.
Phill 41:45
We weren't trying to make money. We weren't trying to be cool. You know, we were trying to you know, you know, be us and be it through that artwork, but that is not how the art game was. Maybe it still isn't that way?
Phil 42:00
Yeah.
Phill 42:01
I kind of feel that we were maybe, I don't know, 10/15 years late, or a trust fund away from making it right?
Phil 42:10
Right.
Phill 42:11
At that age at that age. So yeah, so yeah, anyway, I'm- go on, sorry.
Phil 42:15
No, no, no, no, it's fine. I just like, excuse me, I just wanted to unpack a few things. Because you're absolutely right. And this is something that has come up a number of times in conversations with my old partners, Joe and, and Matt is that we were a little bit ahead of our time, actually, a whole bunch ahead of our time. And you're absolutely right, that any kind of excessive funding that we could have cornered, would have been a great help. But it's why I say we're ahead of our time is because things now progress so much faster and the ad hoc crowdsourcing reality that we live in makes my that idea at the time seemed so much more like, "Oh, maybe we just didn't try hard enough" but the truth was the avenues were not there in the way that they are now. But could you imagine if we had the same youthful angst and it is in a lot of ways, again, coming full circle because the world that we live in is very relative and it makes it very, like, you know, Matt had texted me a while ago and he was like, "The world needs behind me lines again. I think they realize that right?" And I was like, "I do, I do, but-" I feel like I don't have my focus has changed and a lot of ways in and certain maturity levels have happened. Where I'm I feel like a poser if I try and go back and revisit that. And it's sad to feel that way because I do still have the same mindset. I definitely do. I never I've- nothing's ever changed. I used to warn people about the KKK and stuff like that. And people used to laugh at me. They'd be like, nobody's really burning crosses in the woods anymore and all these-
Phill 44:22
Yeah, I remember just to say, man, I remember you not to get political.
Phil 44:25
Go ahead yeah that's OK.
Phill 44:26
I remember when, uh, when Trump won in 2016.
Phil 44:30
Yeah.
Phill 44:31
Talking with Matt. This is the same Matt, and
Yes.
Everybody was so surprised like, "What?!" It was like, dude, man, if you signed into Xbox Live between 2004
Phil 44:40
Yep. We knew it was coming. We
Phill 44:43
All those 12-year-old roads in 2006 and 2007, man, you're calling us the N-word.
Yep.
Every week, dude, that's why I stopped playing Xbox.
Phil 44:53
Oh, I don't doubt it.
Phill 44:54
I started playing PS3 because it was such, you know, was Dude, I do I was called you know, we will call the N-word every freakin weekend bro.
Phil 45:05
If I had a dime for every time a dime, I'd be able to pay I'd be able to pay my rent, like monthly without fail, you know?
Phill 45:15
So anyway go on. Yeah, sorry but yeah
Phil 45:17
No, no, it's okay. It's okay. segues are segues and I- of course, I encourage that. I love that, you know, we're here to interact. Um, but But yeah, I mean, you want to go let's go back to the early part of your question about it being derivative of Ecko Unlimited. Now, don't get me wrong, I was highly influenced by Marc Ecko was highly influenced by Tribal and things like that, because there was a time where, you know, the graphic T was so was such a statement. And it was what people used to use to express themselves. We didn't have profiles, we didn't have usernames, we didn't have any of those newer identities that have become a mainstay in our social interactions. So creating this thing, this understanding of the world and trying to get my own frustrations out about what I was experiencing in the world was what born- was, where beHind enEmy liNes was born, but it was also born out of a bunch of different iterations. So again, everything is relative to my peer group. My, um, the people that I met in Brentwood. So there was an early attempt at a T-shirt company that was formed of like Adam and this other gentleman, um, Paul.
Phill 45:25
Yeah, Paul. I remember Paul
Phil 46:42
Yeah. Yeah, there was this whole idea and the reason why I thought it was a viable idea and why I wanted to be a part of it so badly is because a few years prior, I had taken these, these entrepreneurial courses at this place called NFTE the national foundation for entrepreneurship, a training or something. So it was like NFI-YTE or whatever, I can never remember that. I used to go very early in the morning and I would be half-asleep on the train. Um, funny story about how I punched a lady in the face once by accident 'cause I was asleep and she was so tired. She didn't even respond. So yeah, that sums up that story really quick. It was funny. I was mortified. I was mortified and venerated at the same time, 'cause she didn't press charges. But um, so when I went to this course, they trained me that it was about I want a scholarship to it because they want to teach young black- black children that starting a business is a viable thing, how to go about it how to file for- so I was the- me in the class that I was in, we were the test subjects and they came from all over the place. One of the gentlemen would actually work in a Marc Ecko warehouse. So he had prototypes of clothing and stuff like that and like crazy stuff, but he wasn't the nicest guy we got along okay, but he was a little elitist, so we didn't get along. Um, you know, I'm very shy. I'm very dorky and stuff. So like, people like that tend to over overbear on me when I was younger now not so much. But um, no. So I learned that it is a viable way to make money it is with minimal capital startup and stuff. So it was always a goal for me to do this. So fast forward, Paul and Adam, that happened. It- they wanted it to happen, it got to a certain point and then everybody didn't want to do it anymore. So I eventually talked with Lee who was a part of this, this group of people this
Phill 46:00
He is gonna be a guest soon as well. Adam as well.
Excellent. Excellent. That is I am looking forward to hearing that one. Um, but Lee had spoken to me at a party, um, and he was like, "Hey, man, what's going on with that T-shirt thing? Like are you guys still doing it?" He was all about it. He was like, "Yo, I would love to, to be a part of it." And I said- I was like, well, it's not gonna happen. Um, they changed their minds, but I had these ideas and Lee was like, will tell me your ideas and then I would tell Lee the ideas and Lee's like, "These ideas are great, let's do something." and we came up with the shirts that were almost like psychological that um, explain certain it would have like a fancy word like "malaise" and then it had it would just have an image and we kind of like explain the image if there was something about three oranges and stuff was very, quote-unquote high art you know before juxtaposition before all this like crazy stuff was going on the city was this like idea of high art in T-shirts. And I'm sure it's been done before but when in our search, social media
Phill 48:49
Yeah, we didn't know we were from Brentwood.
Phil 49:47
and our exposure, it just didn't exist. But then when me and Lee it just never coalesced, but I came up with this idea of the gas mask because there's a Philip K Dick book called, um, All the Sheep Look Up, okay. And on the cover of it, there's a bunch of rams or and sheep that are wearing these gas masks and they're all staring up at the sky. And it's something clicked when I saw that. And I was like, that's it. That's, that's there's something there. And that's where the idea of the filter came. Because I feel like you know, there's a lot of people ignoring what's going on around them. And I used to, I used to write these. Remember in Fight Club when he was talking about writing the haikus the all-too-specific haikus and leaving them randomly around the office. I was doing that but I was doing it through email. And I used to sit in Times Square or Port Authority, and I would start describing people around me and what I didn't like about them and what I didn't like about society, and I would literally send it to a ton of people And it was just a social commentary. It was like Facebook before Facebook kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I was sending it to people that were working professionals. I know Chris Sotomayor had gotten a couple of I sent it to my sister, and I would always sign them "You're ever faithful correspondent from behind enemy lines." Like that just became a thing for me. And people used to hit me back with you know, "Are you feeling okay? Do you need to talk to somebody? Are you feeling suicidal?" And it's like, "No, don't you feel this? Don't you understand that, like, there's a certain level of indolence and like just people not paying attention to what's going on around them?" And that's where all this evolved from. And it started becoming, like you said, more political and more political. And to this day, I mean, I went to see my parents not too long ago, and social distancing and all that stuff. So I had my mom open the back door, open the screen, open the basement door, and I ran through the house, went downstairs and I said found some beHind enEmy liNe shirts because I wanted to wear them to the protest because it was kind of embarrassing. Matt showed up and he's got a he's got his H.E.N. shirt on. And I'm standing there like a goofball with some random shirt on I think I had like a dollar sign with that it's made of a snake that's done by this artist named Jonathan Wayshak. I just love it, because it's so subversive. And it's the only like, few political shirts that I could wear without having curse words on it or really offending people. But like the idea of capitalism being this evil thing with iron nails going through it and a Python, it's ready to strike. Um, so it wasn't too bad. But um, I was like, No, I gotta have these shirts. I gotta have them in my possession. I have to wear them at these protests because people are starting to pay attention. Um, so yeah, it was born out of this idea of, of, you know, kind of feeling, feeling out the future that we're currently dealing with.
Phill 52:59
Yeah. 'cause even like the I saw one of your pictures in the protest, I remember that drawing of the guy handcuffed
Phil 53:05
Oh boy.
Phill 53:06
That was shot, by the- And that was what early 2000s when you made that?
Phil 53:10
Yeah, it had to be
Phill 53:11
People are like, "Oh this is too extreme." And it's like this is what's fucking happening, man
Phil 53:15
Dark stuff I used to draw.
Phill 53:16
Yeah,
Phil 53:17
Yeah, no go ahead
Phill 53:18
It's happening.
Yeah,
It's you know, that's we're protesting it's so. So on the nose and definitely you know I think you know there's a lot to be said there I think just me looking back at it and just I never felt it what your artwork that was too extreme or too explicit. I just remember feeling this is what's happening. And you no one- and as you said behind enemy lines, everyone's ignoring it.
Phil 53:19
Yeah, yeah.
Phill 53:25
And that's and it was such a bittersweet thing because I know it should have been popping off should have been bigger, but it was it was just too real.
Phil 54:02
Yeah.
Phill 54:06
And now, you know, you it's normal now it's you know, he was like, yeah, you know, I'd swear that it's, you know, it's explaining what's happening. It's like, yeah, this design is you know, as old as you are.
Phil 54:18
Yeah. Yeah. If not older.
Phill 54:21
Almost, 20 years old.
Phil 54:21
Yeah. But I also like the idea that, despite the fact that it was frowned upon, despite the fact that he, you know, people ask me on my own drugs and like, like, you're asking him 15/16/17 year old kid, is there doing acid? And the answer is, "Yes." No, I'm just kidding. No, but you know, that was always the response to my artwork, even when I was like, 10. And I'm like, "Do my parents look like the type of people who would let me like, do psychotropic drugs?" No, I just, you know, but yeah, but it doesn't matter. When you arrive. The point is, in fact, you are here. So it doesn't matter that it happened back then it doesn't matter that I can kind of sound a little bitter about, you know, not being taken seriously enough that none of that matters. The point is, is that it's still there, and I could still use it and I could still tap into it. And it for me, it's so humbling. And it is vindicating to see people have that response that reaction. Do you know how many people take photos of that, that picture when it's printed on the sign and I'm walking around with it? People stare at it, and it 'cause you know you don't have- you do have heavy-hitting imagery absolutely without a doubt. But you do not have illustrations at local Suffolk County protests that are like that. I've seen some great signs and I've seen some great messages being out there, but gut-shot messages, got-shot images I have had. I've walked past cops that have looked at that image and had a visceral response to it.
Phill 54:21
Yeah, yeah, because it's real.
Phil Young 56:11
I didn't have to draw. I did not have to draw a police officer as a farm animal. I did not have to draw anger. I didn't have to draw anything. The image is simple. It's alone. This person is dead and they are handcuffed. You do not need to know more. The only thing that is- I think the image is called streetlight confession. And it's literally it's like Street Light- Streetlight Confessional or something. It was you know I weird I used to come up with weird titles for my, my artwork, but it was the fact that it was a spotlight. And it was a streetlight, that given the spotlight of this person, you know, laying there being shot in the head who was already clearly a handcuff. It was to invoke a lot of imagery, like the idea of the Vietnam- the Vietnam image where the man is being executed on camera, shot in the head, you know that there's an aftermath to that. There's an aftermath of everything and it's solitary, it's left alone. And it's sad the image is really sad. Like I look at
Phill 57:18
It's haunting, it's haunting,
Phil 57:20
Yeah, when I when a mon armory had passed, I did the same or was executed. I wish I had the same- like, it popped in my head. I was like, Oh my god, that thing. That image it's still there, you know?
Phill 57:34
Yeah.
Phil 57:34
And there's heavier images I've drawn they while they're stuff that I've drawn but that- that one image is simple and solitary as it is has carried me decades
Phill 57:47
Yeah, man, powerful man. I remember when you showed it to me the first time your years ago?
Phil 57:52
Yeah.
Phill 57:53
Yeah,
Phil 57:53
Yeah.
Phill 57:54
But um, so yeah, this there's two more things. So what are you up to now, man, I mean, I know you are I know you have to but it's kind of it's you know, kind of, you know, slightly similar, but also different but I think it you know, I remember when you told me that you're going to do what you're doing now as you know, as a career.
Phil 58:16
Yes.
Phill 58:18
I was like, "Whoa!" Yeah, I know you could do it but it was definitely something else.
Phil 58:24
Yeah, it diverted from everything that you've known about me so far. But you know, the funny thing is that a lot in a lot of ways they were people like when Jeff came to me and you know, let's let's let the cat out of the bag. I instead of just being a regular illustrator, and a sculptor and all the other things that I've tried in my in my- and still practice to this day, I decided to take on tattooing on top of it. Um, but there were people like Jeff who came to me and he said, Man, yo I'm finally getting a tattoo. Because, man, the loyalty of Jeff is legendary. Like he is he is just that guy. You know you cannot
Phill 59:10
He'll be a guest as well. He'll be a guest as well.
Phil 59:12
Oh yeah, absolutely. And that another person everybody's gonna have a lot of fun hearing because you think I can tell stories just wait till Jeff starts telling stories. But you know, the loyalty of Jeff is something that is it's astounding like you just you're in awe of it I am forever and all of that man. But he was like I was I'm just waiting to get a tattoo from you. Because like I knew that this is where you were going to end up like you not end up but I knew this was an avenue that you were going to take eventually. Yeah, I was waiting for you. So that was like, really, like wildly humbling and like kind of like, "Wow, you know what he's right." When I was a kid I used to get in trouble cuz I used to draw over myself. I used to draw tribal all over my arms. And you get yelled at school and stuff like that. And yeah, so Like it's to me in the aftermath and the hindsight of it it's not surprising that I took this route but- so basically I do that, but I still design toys, I still have the love of sculpture.
Phill 59:12
Yeah amazing like you're on Terminator/Storm Trooper mashup, man. I mean-
Phil 1:00:21
Yeah, that's a lot of that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun. And that was born out of a friend of mine giving me the Terminator skull from it was like from Loot Crate or something. And he goes to me, it's my friend, Rick. He goes, he goes, "Do you think you could do anything with this?" Like, "If you were to do something with this, how would you customize this?" And I look at it and I go, "Why, I don't know, Rick. I mean, what I would do I'd put LEDs in his eyes." because he wanted some insight because he was like, "Maybe I'll do something like this." I said, "Okay, well, if you want to know what I would do, I would put LEDs in its eyes. I maybe like paint it like rust-colored like it seen some people damage and stuff." And he was like, "You know what? That sounds too complex here, you can have the skull take it. And if you ever do anything with it, you know, let me know, let me see it." So it went on the shelf in the back of the shop, I have a small studio in the back of the tattoo shop. Um, and at one point, I remember I was cleaning up and rearranging things. And I had this little DIY Stormtrooper helmet, it's just a little white vinyl helmet that they give you markers with and you can paint it and I was like, you know, one of these days maybe I'll paint one of these guys. And I put them on the shelf next to each other completely accidental and was eureka moments I look at them like
Phill 1:01:36
Yeah.
Phil 1:01:36
What that would fit inside of that. Like perfectly to scale. What see and I ended up cutting this thing up and putting together and it's it now it's this fun little piece that I've actually sold a handful of them.
Phill 1:01:53
Yeah, man. Dude, it's awesome man.
Phil 1:01:55
Thank you. There's actually one gentleman this again, everybody from Brentwood friends and family there. They're my family. You guys are my family. Um, this guy, John has, he buys one of every time I make one and he makes me make different ones and like
Phill 1:02:14
That's so cool, man.
Phil 1:02:14
He inspires me to do stuff he's a great friend to have. He's a great friend to have like, I you know, a lot of people, I think a lot of my friends, they, they, they go out of their way to just be like, what can you do with this? Like, challenge me like, how do you draw this? Why don't you Why don't you do that? And that's where my inspiration comes from. I have a ton of people who are muses, to me that will call me up and like, "Yo, Phil do this." And I'll- or they're like, "Phil, I don't think you could do this." And I'm like, "Yeah, watch this."
Phill 1:02:35
"Watch this."
Phil 1:02:46
So you know, um we're taking that in a whole different direction. In the next couple of months. I have um, I will be learning ZBrush which is a digital sculpting program and
Phill 1:02:58
for games Yeah.
Phil 1:02:59
It takes a little while to get the hang of it. But I've managed to have another friend of mine build me a PC. That's pretty powerful that can handle it. Um, but I went back to John and I told him what my idea was 'cause he was like, dude, the sky's the limit. Let's make Mandalorian ones. So let's make Boba Fett. Let's make this. Let's make that. Let's make Optimus Prime which came off of him, because he's a big he's a big Transformers fan. But then Chris started hitting me up with photographs of this and then other people saw him and I was like,
Phill 1:03:28
He is gonna be a guest too. Chris is going to be a gift as well.
Phil 1:03:30
Oh, great. Great. Another person with- so many people you're going to have who
Phill 1:03:35
Dude, man that's why I had this podcast? I was like, "Dude, I know. Too many fucking cool people."
Phil 1:03:39
Yeah. And do you think I went over? I think it's gonna be I think what it's gonna be the challenge is gonna be who can have the shortest, the shortest one because I'm already like, take I'm like setting the high score right now. But no, with John. He's like, he's like, "Dude, man. He's like, I know a guy who scans car parts." He was like, "We don't-" because I was telling everybody was like you know I I got lucky with this these two elements working in concert with each other so well so um I don't want to sculpt a Boba Fett helmet I don't want to sculpt an Optimus Prime head because there are like especially when you're doing hard surface sculpting there's all these like elements and things that can happen there's um you know I prefer when I try to create a product especially a product that I already have like in circulation I always try to do a mass production run and when I say mass production I say like 10 because it's nice because other people want it and instead of it just going to one person it goes to 10 people and 10 people are happy and now I have enough money to make more of something else and it snowballs. So now he's like, "No, dude, we can we can, we can scan the original Stormtrooper helmet that you made for me that I purchased." and all that I don't have to sit there and do a lot of customizing because each one is very handmade, but I would like it to be as much as everybody enjoys the handmade element of it, I would like it to be very uniform because then when you make 10 of them and you sell it to people that they're getting the same thing every time I would love to have everybody have the same sense of quality because I never liked it when you would buy a toy back in the 80s and you would look at the back of a card of the toy or you'd see it in a magazine and it says product shown is does not match the product that you buy that has always drove me up a wall in my entire life. So my one of my goals in the back of my head has always been to bridge that gap and a lot of people do it like there's the way toys are made now. Absolutely a lot of people that- what you see is what you get. That's it.
Phill 1:05:54
Yeah.
Phil 1:05:55
I personally just use that as a as a form of measurement. When I try to create something to that I plan on selling to people. So yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of products and projects on the horizon that again, I will be changing direction and all this other stuff, but certain things remain like so. Yes, I still illustrate. Currently, I am doing a branding for a whiskey company.
Phill 1:06:23
Yeah, yeah.
Phil 1:06:24
Yeah. Which I think you would find very interesting. Um, the the company is called Fear City Spirits co. Now, it's based on a 1970- I want to see 76 or 73 ad campaign in New York City where they were going to lay off a ton of police officers. And their retaliation was to hand out these flyers as people entered New York City through the toll booths and stuff like that, that drastically, um drastically overcompensated What crime was like in New York City in a way to scare people? You don't stuff that you've never heard of.
Phill 1:07:09
Yeah, yeah.
Phil Young 1:07:09
And I told a friend of mine about it. And he was like, "Oh, yeah, that's around the deathwish time of New York City, where they even in movies, they made it seem like New York City was so dangerous to be in." And don't get me wrong. New York City was dangerous. I mean, you-
Phill 1:07:24
Yeah it was. Yeah, I remember? I remember the 80s.
Phil 1:07:25
You take the subways, you were taking your life in your hands. Um, yeah, but they exaggerated the violence to instill- It was a terror tactic. So it was it's so relevant. And I'm so happy that I'm getting this contract to create these these images for something that's so relevant now. It's like- an almost like an anti-cop, or anti like you anti-establishment whiskey company that I'm getting the contract for so yeah, I'm still doing- I do everything dude. I illustrate- And people come to me and they're like, "Can you do this?" I'm like, "Of course I can." And they trust my vision. So I've been very lucky. I've been very lucky.
Phill 1:08:08
Yeah, man. I mean, you know, Yeah, dude. Yeah. So and I remember, I remember the struggles man, I remember, you know, you know, just all our talks, and it's so, so cool to see you like flourishing and
Phil 1:08:18
Thank you
Phil 1:08:19
that's what- how I feel.
Phil 1:08:25
Thank you, thank you
Phill 1:08:27
You know? Yeah, man. So, yeah, the last question, I guess, would be, can you speak- So this podcast is going to be aimed at language learners. English language learners
Phil 1:08:43
Yes.
Phill 1:08:43
So this will all be transcribed. And a lot of the slang and idioms we use or are going to be translated. So people come out from it
Phil 1:08:54
Sure.
Phill 1:08:55
But so yeah, I'm gonna ask everyone.
Phil Young 1:08:58
This is the dreaded question, by the way. Go ahead, this is the most dreaded question.
Phill 1:09:03
Can you speak other languages? Even a few words other than English? If so, please share.
Phil 1:09:08
Sure. Um, I. Okay, so I can tell you everything about my life, right, like, candidly, I've had no problems telling you all types of weird stories about myself. But when it comes to other languages, I have struggled with that. So when I lived in Japan, I learned quite a few things. I learned quite a few phrases that were useful. Um, and, yes, I think that's one of the most important, like portions of this podcast and I think it's the genius part of your podcast, and where I'm gonna woefully let you down is the fact that no, I do not speak any other languages. I rarely I can barely understand French because I grew up in a household where they mostly spoke French. Um,
Phill 1:09:11
Okay.
Phil 1:09:21
Because my family and my lineage is from Martinique, um, and But again, it's a patois. So it's it's a it's a slang version of French it is not, quote-unquote, the "Queen's English" or like proper English. So yeah, yes. And then when I was in Japan, I learned that the amount of slang that everybody uses is daunting like it's great though I love how I love Japanese slang because it takes a word and it reduces it to a single consonant. Like a single constant, like almost like a noise that people make and, and everybody else instantaneously understands it. So I'm jealous of that because we don't have anything in English language that is so so um, so user friendly. So Swiss Army knife, so utilitarian, you know, we have to we have to like explain everything and we Yeah, you know, so, the funny thing is this where I'm going to let you down Is that no, I cannot speak in a language but I remember that I used to, I used to have these phrases in my vocabulary and on the last flight back to the States when I left Japan and I wasn't going to return. Um. the first thing people asked me when I got back was, well, what Japanese did you learn? And I feel like in that flight on the way back I like, deep like debriefed myself on Japan and I like I no longer I didn't have it in me
Phill 1:11:28
the Men In Black thing.
Phil 1:11:29
Yeah. It's so frustrating because I remember and this is- I'm gonna start like really slaughtering Japanese phrases. And I hope it makes your listeners laugh because, um, I used to get into bowing contests with people at places you know, 'cause you bow the bow more. Um, so, uh, um, domoarigatougozaimasu, itadakimasu. Oh, my face favorite favorite phrase in Japanese. Absolutely favorite to the point where people got mad at me because I would use it all the time when I would get into a car. Um, you know, let's go? Ikimashyō. It is such a powerful phrase and such like an energizing phrase. I love it. Ikimashyō, like we can do this. like, Yo, I feel like if we started chanting Ikimashyō, I'm at protests. And during the mayori dance at the same time, we will we will conquer any sort of civil rights problems that were happening instantaneously. I feel like cops will put their guns down. They would join us in the dance, and they would get empowered to be like, Yes, let's go. Life can be good. Like can be good Ikimashyō. You know, like, so. Yeah, um, that that's my that's my phrases. Um, I know how to curse in French pretty proficiently. Um,
Phill 1:12:43
Go for it.
Phil 1:12:57
Oh, uh, there was one that- This is when I was a kid, this is how you knew you were in trouble. Like you were in trouble like so you were getting you were getting a beat and you were getting that island beating Um, it's gonna take me a second to conjure it, but uh, it was a How do you see this? Now I got all I can hear in my head is Ikimashyō, fuck. But um, no, it is [mais tu mi merde alors]
Phill 1:13:43
Oh, it's like shit or something like that?
Phil 1:13:57
Yeah. Yeah, like super. Super motherfucker shit is like you knew it was game on like the belt was coming out. Like the Kool-Aid spoon. You know? The slipper chancla was gonna fly. And Yo, like, for real. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that and it was terrifying because it would only come from three people. It came from my grandmother, who never really beat us as much as my father's mother, my mother's mother, she would punish the hell out of us like you're going to stand in that corner you're going to stand there all day and sometimes she like spank you it a little bit, but the beatings that would come from like, a, like my father's mother or my parents or my grandfather were like legendary like you knew you screwed up when they were gonna lay hands on you like crap. I doh' if I had just not done that one thing. Um, Ikimashyō. I used it as a derogatory term, "Why did I screw up? Ikimashyō" Um, but no, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a very powerful phrase. Um, so yeah, I do struggle with language but I think a lot of that has to do with everybody learns differently. And if you have a need and a want and a love for learning a language you will learn that language.
Phill 1:14:57
Yeah, I guess it's similar to your artwork, right?
Phil 1:14:59
Yeah, yeah. practice and all that. But again, I think that's why what you're doing is so important is that you're, you're allowing people to hear the voice of a multitude of people speaking a multitude of different ways and applying a slang to that. A casual conversation. So yeah, yeah, I think that's a very important role.
Phill 1:15:24
That's the goal. Well, man, Phil, man, thank you. So much man
Phil 1:15:32
Anytime, thank you.
Phill 1:15:35
Yeah, man, this is gonna be great. And yeah, just lastly, like if people want to contact you, or, you know, there's like a website or you know, you have to give like personal information or anything.
Phil 1:15:47
Sure, sure.
Phill 1:15:48
Um, yeah, where can people see your artwork or
Phil 1:15:52
The best way of contact, artwork, or things like that, even though I'm really bad at posting on his Instagram. Um, and it's egg, Egg underscore. Let me double-check. I think it's p h i l underscore, young, y o u n g. (@egg_phil_young) very much like the Chinese- the American Chinese dinner course called "egg foo yung", you know, was very similar, uh, it but um, yeah.
Phill 1:16:30
Okay, cool. Yeah. So I'll put it in the show description.
Phil 1:16:33
Sure, sure.
Phill 1:16:34
And people can follow you there.
Phil 1:16:35
Sure.
Phill 1:16:36
All right, dude, man. Thank you. You're one of my heroes that I call by their name.
Phil 1:16:39
Aw dude, thank you. You're my hero, dude Thank you. You're my hero.
Phill 1:16:43
Thanks, dude. All right.
Phil 1:16:45
All right.
Phill 1:16:46
Peace out.
Phil 1:16:46
Thank you.
Phill 1:16:47
Yeah, we'll keep on talking.
Phil 1:16:48
Yeah, yeah. No, I wanted to let you do your outro and things like that. But yeah, we can keep talking.
Phill 1:16:54
This is the outro
Phil 1:16:54
Yeah.
Great podcast!! Really enjoyed it!
ReplyDeleteThanks for listening! Episode 2 will come out Friday! :)
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